Too many foreigners, that's the problem!

'Chopper' · 02-19-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

England are struggling to develop a big enough player base to succeed in internationals, says Howard Wilkinson.

It is unlikely more than 12 Englishmen will play in the Champions League games this week despite England having the most clubs - four - left in the event.

But a study by ex-Football Association technical director Wilkinson showed successful national teams probably need at least 50 players to pick from.

"The job of the England coach will be more difficult," he told BBC Sport.

"Your best players need to be playing against the best players in the Premier League and the Champions League consistently."

During his time as the FA's technical director Wilkinson carried out a study of all the World Cup and European Championship semi-finalists and finalists since the Second World War.

The results suggested that when teams start a two-year qualifying campaign that 50 players are needed in a provisional squad.

The study also revealed that successful teams had players with an average age of 28 or 29 and who had won 30 or more caps.

Consistency, in terms of selection through a tournament, as well as managerial continuity were also important factors to sides succeeding in major tournaments.

"It became apparent from England teams that the pool necessary to sustain a good national team is larger than the 22 when you pick a squad," said Wilkinson, who is chairman of the League Managers Association.

"But it's very difficult to produce 50 world-class performers from a pool of 100.

"That's why Brazil do so well because they have got so many players to choose from."

If the representation of English players is wafer-thin in the Champions League, it is also slowly being salami sliced in the Premier League.

According to a recent Professional Footballers' Association report, the number of English players starting Premier League matches dropped from 363 in the 1992-93 season to 191 last season.

While the representation of English players fell from 71% to 38%, overseas players, who comprised 10% of Premier League players in 1992-93, rose to 51%.

A decade ago, Wilkinson produced the FA's Charter for Quality, which led to the creation of 41 academies in the Premier and Football League and was designed to nurture a recurring crop of young English footballers.

Unsurprisingly, Wilkinson believes there is still much work to be done in the way England organises the production of young players.

I can also agree with this:

Quote:

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to back the full and complete development of Howard Wilkinson's National Football Centre and Regional Football Centres of Excellence, directed by a competent and empowered FA board.Our professional football clubs, have to be brought to bear. They themselves have undermined the development of our young football culture with the signing, dropping and subsequent dissolution of many developing young players. The way forward has to be, as Trevor Brooking has advocated, to develop the skills of footballers effectively from grass roots upward. More effort and funding is needed to help amateur coaches. What better then to have a national focal point, as defined by former FA technical director Howard Wilkinson, set in Burton-on-Trent in the heart of England and steering the whole of English football development. Since the scheme was put forward, delays, Wembley distractions and misguided league chairmen have undermined the development of this vital football asset. We must empower our developing footballers to the same levels and beyond that of other sporting nations, not restrict other nationalities who bring so much to the game. Now is the time to act effectively for the future of our sport.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/burton/ Unfortunately, there's only 2 signatures! But, If Howard knows how English football can be improved it must be the way forward? Give him a knighthood I say!!

Quote:

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to honour Howard Wilkinson (football manager). i believe that Howard Wilkinson has been a great asset for English football over the last 32 years since he became the manager of Boston. This man is the latest English manager to win the football league when he took Leeds United to the championship and yet has not been honoured by his country, when lesser sportsman have been honoured.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/honour-Sgt-Wilko/ One, yes one, signature!

'Chopper' · 02-20-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Blatter's player quota plan may not see the light of day
Fifa's plan to introduce a quota on foreign players has been struck a major blow by the European Commission.

Sepp Blatter, head of football's ruling body, was hoping to enforce his 6+5 rule that would stop clubs from playing more than five non-nationals in an XI.

"The implementation by Fifa of a 6+5 rule in the European Union would violate EU law," said an EC spokesman.

"The Commission is not considering any change to allow Fifa to push forward this idea. Fifa is aware of this fact."

A spokesman for football's governing body said they were not going to comment on the statements issued by the EC, who are the executive branch of the EU.

Despite the stance, Blatter is set to submit his idea to the Fifa Congress when it meets in Sydney on 29 and 30 May.

"Over the years and decades, by signing more and more foreign players, clubs have gradually lost their identity, first locally and regionally," said the Fifa president when explaining his proposal.

A Fifa statement said that Blatter "will not tackle supranational organisations such as the EU but rather convince them of Fifa's approach".

Blatter is holding out hope that the mention of the specificity of sport in a new European Treaty will give concession to his idea.

But the EC said that would not happen and that his plan would still be considered "illegal".

"It would appear that the wording of the new provision on sport in the Treaty is causing Mr Blatter and colleagues to conclude that the quota idea may yet see implementation because the new Treaty also mentions the 'specificity of sport'," continued the EC statement.

"It is extremely unlikely that the new Treaty provision on sport would lead to a new legal situation.

"Hence, a system of quotas based on nationality, as proposed by Blatter, is illegal under the current acquis and will remain illegal under the new Treaty."

Blatter's concept has already been met with concerns from Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell, who said the club will "absolutely" oppose the plan.

"Within football at the moment there are already enough restrictions being imposed on clubs without further ones being applied," he added.

The Premier League also reiterated its opposition to the proposal during Tuesday's Culture, Media and Sport Committee meeting in London.

But Football Association chairman Lord Triesman hinted that the introduction of quotas should be given consideration.

"There now needs to be a very, very careful analysis of what the legal requirements are or are not about the employment of players but also what may be the regulations about how many start in games - which may not be the same," he stated.

The only, lawful, way to impose limits is to deny work permits to non-EU players. The Treaty of Rome allows EU citizens to move/work freely within the EU, but it doesn't apply to e.g. Africans. So don't give them work permits. It might not necessarily mean more English players come through but it'll limit the number of non-EU players in our leagues, taking the place of a local youngster.

NO "censored" AFRICANS! NO "censored" SOUTH AMERICANS! NO "censored"ASIANS! Or anyone else without an EU passport! Otherwise it's unworkable, the clubs will not agree to 'restricting' their squads so the government will have to make the decision to deny work permits to those who can be denied one."Nodding"

'Chopper' · 02-25-2008, 12:55 PM

Here's the Hearts bench from Saturday's game against Motherwell:

Beniusis (Lithuanian, born 1980), Zaliukas (Lithuanian, born 1983), Mikoliunas (Lithuanian, born 1984), Basso (French, born 1979), Thomson (Scottish, born 1987), Ivaskevicius (Lithuanian, born 1985), Ksanavicius (Lithuanian, born 1977)

One solitary Jock on the bench! With 7 subs coming in in England next season too what's to say the additional seats aren't polished by more cheap foreign imports? The idea would give the likes of Wenger more foreign options and not necessarily lead to English players getting a chance!

Just as an aside, here's the starting line up:

Banks (English)
Karipidis (Greek)
Wallace (Scottish)
Palazuelos (Spanish)
Nade (Costa Rican)
Neilson (Scottish)
Jonsson (Icelandic)
Berra (Scottish)
Elliot (Scottish)
Cesnauskis (Lithuanian)
Goncalves (Portuguese)

TOO MANY

FOREIGNERS!

'Chopper' · 02-26-2008, 12:38 PM

We've got Rangers next (27th) and it'll be interesting to see a) how many changes there are to the side that beat Motherwell and b) how many

foreigners are in the side!

'Chopper' · 02-26-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

With an average of 7 English players featuring for Aston Villa each week, Martin Oâ€™Neill certainly isnâ€™t adding to Fabio Capelloâ€™s concerns that only 38% of Premier League players are English. Villaâ€™s young side have excelled this season and their managerâ€™s optimism is tangible. Martin Oâ€™Neill has been speaking to Sue McCann

â€œThereâ€™s no reason not to be optimistic because we have kept going and now suddenly we are in with a chance (of European football) with 12 games to go. If you can now just narrow it down to a 12 game season then thereâ€™s no reason not to have the same optimism as weâ€™ve had in the last couple of months.â€

There are a number of teams vying for one of those coveted European places. Do you believe your young side have got enough composure to keep the focus that will be required right to the wire?

â€œThe younger players are definitely getting the experience but whether we have the composure or not is shown for instance when we lost to Fulham. We took the lead with about 20 minutes to go and we lost the game. Even though we werenâ€™t playing well in the match I wonder whether a more experienced side would have lost that lead. You know over the course of time that you might have to iron that out but it still doesnâ€™t stop me from having optimism. Weâ€™ve got that enthusiasm, that drive and determination and I am hoping that those things might overcome that bit of experience that you might need.â€

You had a good representation of Villa players in Fabio Capelloâ€™s first England squad. With another squad to be announced in couple of weeks thatâ€™s another target for your young players... to be included again would be ratification of how well they are doing....

â€œYes you are absolutely right. When Capelloâ€™s first squad was announced we had 5 people involved. You must have that ambition (to be in the squad); it must be a driving force. To know that someone is keeping an eye on you and watching your progress at International level is only good news and definitely a very positive effect around the football club.â€

Fabio Capello has also indicated that he will try out different players as England Captain up until the World Cup qualifiers actually start. Would you like to see him maybe give Gareth Barry even half a game in the role because he could be a Captain for somewhere in the future/the next England generation?

â€œBeing the Captain of England is a really, really fantastic honour and eventually Iâ€™m sure that Capello will settle on someone and then have them as a permanent fixture. Everything is still very new to Capello and whilst he is trying out these things then I would say â€˜well why not?â€™ Gareth is a driving force on the field and he could learn to be more vociferous on the pitch. Heâ€™s very much a case of a Captain by example as much as anything else. I donâ€™t really want to draw the analogy but Martin Johnson, they reckoned when playing for the England rugby team, it wasnâ€™t so much about what he said it was really what he did on the field that counted as much.â€

You play Steve Coppell this weekend who has been named the LMA Manager of the Year for the past two years. Has Readingâ€™s struggle in the Premier League this season been an indication that surviving or making progress in this league does require a certain level of financial investment in the team?

â€œSteve Coppell doesnâ€™t need anybody else to tell him what a great job he has done there at Reading. For Reading to get promotion from the Championship and win it by a distance, for them to be in the Premier League last season and just fail to get a European place through the league was absolutely fantastic. Sunderland have gone out and spent a lot of money to try and stay up and I think thereâ€™s no doubt that investment is definitely needed in this league. Steve Coppell has done some job with the resources; especially this season,losing a big player like Steve Sidwell and still having to run around, make changes, pulling in players from here, there and everywhere. â€œ

this is an interview he gave to the League Managers Association. He's clearly keen to give domestic talent a chance .............. unlike some!

kate_wwfc · 02-26-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshbrewer_bafc

just because arsenal are top of the league

thats not the point though is it

'Chopper' · 02-27-2008, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kate_wwfc

thats not the point though is it

Exactly, the point is whether top or bottom of the League there are not enough English, or in Hearts case Scottish, players in the club sides to be of benefit to the national team. The influx of mediocre, cheap, foreign players is stifling the domestic talent and restricting the pool available to the national manager.

FOREIGNERS OUT! says 'Chopper'!

'Chopper' · 02-28-2008, 08:17 AM

Last night's side against Rangers:

Quote:

Banks, Neilson, Karipidis, Berra, Goncalves (Ksanavicius 54), Cesnauskis (Mikoliunas 46), Jonsson (Zaliukas 64), Palazuelos, Wallace, Nade, Elliot. Subs Not Used: Basso, Ivaskevicius, Tall, Mole

The only Jock's are in blue!

Now look at the Rangers side:

Quote:

McGregor, Broadfoot, Cuellar, Weir, Whittaker, Dailly, Naismith, Ferguson, Davis (Thomson 85), Adam, Darcheville (Novo 46). Subs Not Used: Alexander, Boyd, Cousin, Furman, Lennon.

A good Scottish core! Is it any wonder we lost 0-4?!

Koozar · 02-28-2008, 07:05 PM

I said it before and i'll say it again, foreigners DO NOT hamper or stifle English talent. English players are not technically gifted, the only player I can think of is Joe Cole, that's it! You cannot blame foreigners because English players are crap, if English players play, they aren't going to magically receive technical ability! It's not the club's or the manager's job to provide good, young English players, it's the FA's job, and if Trevor Brooking can't do that, which he obviously can't, we can't automatically blame foreigners for being better than us.

Anyway, if our young players are good enough, such as Richards, Huddlestone and Rooney, they will play, the talent will always come through, their development is not hampered by foreigners!

'Chopper' · 02-29-2008, 09:29 AM

Spoken like an Arsenal fan! you're clearly happy not having any English players coming through but some of us with sides full of cheap foreign imports feel the opposite way, we want to see domestic talent given a chance, that's all, give them a chance. If they're good enough they'll stay in the team and develop, if they're not replace them .......... with another local product, not a foreign one!

Call it racist, call it xenophobic, call it protectionist, call it whatever you like:

FOREIGNERS OUT! says 'Chopper'!

02-25-2008, 12:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
'Chopper' Semi-Pro Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Norwich, "A fine city! .... full of inbreds! Posts: 722 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Nominees Submitted: 0 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts Has Not Won Any TOTM Yet	Monday morning whinge! Here's the Hearts bench from Saturday's game against Motherwell: Beniusis (Lithuanian, born 1980), Zaliukas (Lithuanian, born 1983), Mikoliunas (Lithuanian, born 1984), Basso (French, born 1979), Thomson (Scottish, born 1987), Ivaskevicius (Lithuanian, born 1985), Ksanavicius (Lithuanian, born 1977) One solitary Jock on the bench! With 7 subs coming in in England next season too what's to say the additional seats aren't polished by more cheap foreign imports? The idea would give the likes of Wenger more foreign options and not necessarily lead to English players getting a chance! Just as an aside, here's the starting line up: Banks (English) Karipidis (Greek) Wallace (Scottish) Palazuelos (Spanish) Nade (Costa Rican) Neilson (Scottish) Jonsson (Icelandic) Berra (Scottish) Elliot (Scottish) Cesnauskis (Lithuanian) Goncalves (Portuguese) TOO MANY FOREIGNERS! __________________ There *ARE* two teams in Edinburgh, Hearts .......... and Hearts reserves!

02-26-2008, 12:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
'Chopper' Semi-Pro Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Norwich, "A fine city! .... full of inbreds! Posts: 722 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Nominees Submitted: 0 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts Has Not Won Any TOTM Yet	How many foreigners will play against Rangers? We've got Rangers next (27th) and it'll be interesting to see a) how many changes there are to the side that beat Motherwell and b) how many foreigners are in the side! __________________ There *ARE* two teams in Edinburgh, Hearts .......... and Hearts reserves!

02-28-2008, 07:05 PM	#9 (permalink)
Koozar Semi-Pro Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London Posts: 734 Thanks: 2 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts Nominees Submitted: 0 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts Has Not Won Any TOTM Yet	I said it before and i'll say it again, foreigners DO NOT hamper or stifle English talent. English players are not technically gifted, the only player I can think of is Joe Cole, that's it! You cannot blame foreigners because English players are crap, if English players play, they aren't going to magically receive technical ability! It's not the club's or the manager's job to provide good, young English players, it's the FA's job, and if Trevor Brooking can't do that, which he obviously can't, we can't automatically blame foreigners for being better than us. Anyway, if our young players are good enough, such as Richards, Huddlestone and Rooney, they will play, the talent will always come through, their development is not hampered by foreigners! __________________

02-29-2008, 09:29 AM	#10 (permalink)
'Chopper' Semi-Pro Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Norwich, "A fine city! .... full of inbreds! Posts: 722 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Nominees Submitted: 0 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts Has Not Won Any TOTM Yet	Well there's a surprise! Spoken like an Arsenal fan! you're clearly happy not having any English players coming through but some of us with sides full of cheap foreign imports feel the opposite way, we want to see domestic talent given a chance, that's all, give them a chance. If they're good enough they'll stay in the team and develop, if they're not replace them .......... with another local product, not a foreign one! Call it racist, call it xenophobic, call it protectionist, call it whatever you like: FOREIGNERS OUT! says 'Chopper'! __________________ There *ARE* two teams in Edinburgh, Hearts .......... and Hearts reserves!

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